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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;It turns out&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://jsomers.net/blog/it-turns-out</link>
	<description>the jsomers.net blog</description>
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		<title>By: Doug Martin</title>
		<link>http://jsomers.net/blog/it-turns-out/comment-page-1#comment-39893</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2012 05:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jsomers.net/blog/?p=510#comment-39893</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I have found the phrase in non-technical usage to be increasingly a device of charlatons and pretenders.  So now it says to me &quot;Beware of the statement to follow.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Does anyone know the origin of the phrase?  Specifically, why does &quot;turn out&quot; imply completion or conclusion?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have found the phrase in non-technical usage to be increasingly a device of charlatons and pretenders.  So now it says to me &#8220;Beware of the statement to follow.&#8221;</p>

<p>Does anyone know the origin of the phrase?  Specifically, why does &#8220;turn out&#8221; imply completion or conclusion?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Caroline Jones</title>
		<link>http://jsomers.net/blog/it-turns-out/comment-page-1#comment-32575</link>
		<dc:creator>Caroline Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 20:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jsomers.net/blog/?p=510#comment-32575</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;good article..i did a search for usage of the phrase &quot;as it turns out&quot; and this popped up. it gave me better insight.. basically if it warrants an explanation, dont write it.(&quot;it turns out..&quot;)  explain it.  if it&#039;s self-explanatory or already implied or unimportant, write it, right?  anyway thank you.. i read your first post too.. both are good.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good article..i did a search for usage of the phrase &#8220;as it turns out&#8221; and this popped up. it gave me better insight.. basically if it warrants an explanation, dont write it.(&#8220;it turns out..&#8221;)  explain it.  if it&#8217;s self-explanatory or already implied or unimportant, write it, right?  anyway thank you.. i read your first post too.. both are good.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: James Somers</title>
		<link>http://jsomers.net/blog/it-turns-out/comment-page-1#comment-21496</link>
		<dc:creator>James Somers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2011 17:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jsomers.net/blog/?p=510#comment-21496</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;As it happens&quot; or &quot;And you&#039;ll find that&quot; are close.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As it happens&#8221; or &#8220;And you&#8217;ll find that&#8221; are close.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://jsomers.net/blog/it-turns-out/comment-page-1#comment-21492</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2011 16:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jsomers.net/blog/?p=510#comment-21492</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;what is another word for &quot;it turns out&quot; or another phrase for it?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what is another word for &#8220;it turns out&#8221; or another phrase for it?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Linkology: The Best of the Internet for 3/25/11</title>
		<link>http://jsomers.net/blog/it-turns-out/comment-page-1#comment-12265</link>
		<dc:creator>Linkology: The Best of the Internet for 3/25/11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2011 12:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jsomers.net/blog/?p=510#comment-12265</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] clever deconstruction and analysis of the phrase, &#8216;it turns out.&#8217;  It turns out I agree with most of [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] clever deconstruction and analysis of the phrase, &#8216;it turns out.&#8217;  It turns out I agree with most of [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: David Hall</title>
		<link>http://jsomers.net/blog/it-turns-out/comment-page-1#comment-11821</link>
		<dc:creator>David Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 03:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jsomers.net/blog/?p=510#comment-11821</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This turns out to be a most intriguing point.  I most likely will never take &quot;it turns out&quot; in the same manner ever again. Well done, by you and all the friends who&#039;ve commented.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This turns out to be a most intriguing point.  I most likely will never take &#8220;it turns out&#8221; in the same manner ever again. Well done, by you and all the friends who&#8217;ve commented.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Michael Caton</title>
		<link>http://jsomers.net/blog/it-turns-out/comment-page-1#comment-11702</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Caton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jsomers.net/blog/?p=510#comment-11702</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You&#039;re right that using &quot;it turns out&quot; to slam-dunk an argument is sloppy.  In my experience in biomedical science, the phrase is mostly used in a way that could be translated as &quot;Neither of us has the interest to run through the entire set of studies that gave us this result, so I&#039;ll cut to the chase and tell you our unexpected conclusion about how this phenomenon works.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In a broader context the key to the coherence of any non-elementary set of utterances lies in transitions, and being credulous about those is a sure way to get sold the Brooklyn Bridge.  Of course all of us do this all the time without realizing it, to advance our own beliefs about the state of things, and since we usually talk to people who agree with us, we don&#039;t get called on it. Sentences are mostly just lists with descriptors attached to them, and usually the relationships are simple and non-novel enough that if you just pay attention to the nouns in a piece of prose or an utterance, you don&#039;t lose any information.  But getting people to accept a novel, specific logical relationship requires transitions, conjunctions and prepositions, the latter if you&#039;re dealing with a physical object or process.  To see sloppy transition use in the service of narrative-building, try scrolling through the post-game descriptions on ESPN during March Madness and see the narratives they invent:  &quot;The Bruins pulled ahead to a 10 point victory when player XYZ broke Gonzaga&#039;s momentum&quot; - or, listen to end-of-day stock reports on radio news:  &quot;Stocks down on concerns about Middle Eastern chaos&quot; (really?  You&#039;re sure that&#039;s why?)  Post hoc propter hoc is really a special case of this fallacy.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Taleb&#039;s Fooled By Randomness has a nice passage about the abuse of &quot;because&quot; in this same sense.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right that using &#8220;it turns out&#8221; to slam-dunk an argument is sloppy.  In my experience in biomedical science, the phrase is mostly used in a way that could be translated as &#8220;Neither of us has the interest to run through the entire set of studies that gave us this result, so I&#8217;ll cut to the chase and tell you our unexpected conclusion about how this phenomenon works.&#8221;</p>

<p>In a broader context the key to the coherence of any non-elementary set of utterances lies in transitions, and being credulous about those is a sure way to get sold the Brooklyn Bridge.  Of course all of us do this all the time without realizing it, to advance our own beliefs about the state of things, and since we usually talk to people who agree with us, we don&#8217;t get called on it. Sentences are mostly just lists with descriptors attached to them, and usually the relationships are simple and non-novel enough that if you just pay attention to the nouns in a piece of prose or an utterance, you don&#8217;t lose any information.  But getting people to accept a novel, specific logical relationship requires transitions, conjunctions and prepositions, the latter if you&#8217;re dealing with a physical object or process.  To see sloppy transition use in the service of narrative-building, try scrolling through the post-game descriptions on ESPN during March Madness and see the narratives they invent:  &#8220;The Bruins pulled ahead to a 10 point victory when player XYZ broke Gonzaga&#8217;s momentum&#8221; &#8211; or, listen to end-of-day stock reports on radio news:  &#8220;Stocks down on concerns about Middle Eastern chaos&#8221; (really?  You&#8217;re sure that&#8217;s why?)  Post hoc propter hoc is really a special case of this fallacy.</p>

<p>Taleb&#8217;s Fooled By Randomness has a nice passage about the abuse of &#8220;because&#8221; in this same sense.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Assorted links</title>
		<link>http://jsomers.net/blog/it-turns-out/comment-page-1#comment-11699</link>
		<dc:creator>Assorted links</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jsomers.net/blog/?p=510#comment-11699</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] It turns out I read this blog post today.  Be The First to Comment           Cancel [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It turns out I read this blog post today.  Be The First to Comment           Cancel [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John Weldon &#187; Blog Archive &#187; “It turns out” « jsomers.net</title>
		<link>http://jsomers.net/blog/it-turns-out/comment-page-1#comment-5642</link>
		<dc:creator>John Weldon &#187; Blog Archive &#187; “It turns out” « jsomers.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Nov 2010 05:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jsomers.net/blog/?p=510#comment-5642</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] Suppose that I &#8230;(continued after the link)&#8230; via jsomers.net [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Suppose that I &#8230;(continued after the link)&#8230; via jsomers.net [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: James Somers</title>
		<link>http://jsomers.net/blog/it-turns-out/comment-page-1#comment-3938</link>
		<dc:creator>James Somers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jsomers.net/blog/?p=510#comment-3938</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for this, Professor—your analysis is crisp, and I see now how its usage in mathematics makes more apparent the core function of the phrase.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;All I&#039;ll say in the way of a defense of its having those &lt;em&gt;other&lt;/em&gt; functions I claimed for it—inevitability, dispassion, an air of discovery, deception, etc., etc.—is to re-emphasize the way in which the use of &quot;it turns out&quot; by lazy writers is &lt;em&gt;parasitic&lt;/em&gt; on its use by rigorous straightforward expositors.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Like you said, in the mathematical context it basically means something like &quot;here is a fact that I have discovered to be true, and I&#039;ll suppress the details to keep things moving along—if you wanted to work it all out, you no doubt could&quot;; after seeing the phrase used in this way enough times by honest writers (who actually &lt;em&gt;have&lt;/em&gt; done the work they&#039;ve implicitly claimed to), readers might reasonably &quot;let their guard down&quot; when they see it in the future; so if a &lt;em&gt;dishonest&lt;/em&gt; writer comes along and says that &quot;it turns out that X&quot;, these readers will take that statement both as evidence for X and for the fact that the writer has done the work to justify X; the trick is that the idea that &quot;when writers say &#039;it turns out that X&#039;, X turns out to be true&quot; has been baked into these readers over time.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this, Professor—your analysis is crisp, and I see now how its usage in mathematics makes more apparent the core function of the phrase.</p>

<p>All I&#8217;ll say in the way of a defense of its having those <em>other</em> functions I claimed for it—inevitability, dispassion, an air of discovery, deception, etc., etc.—is to re-emphasize the way in which the use of &#8220;it turns out&#8221; by lazy writers is <em>parasitic</em> on its use by rigorous straightforward expositors.</p>

<p>Like you said, in the mathematical context it basically means something like &#8220;here is a fact that I have discovered to be true, and I&#8217;ll suppress the details to keep things moving along—if you wanted to work it all out, you no doubt could&#8221;; after seeing the phrase used in this way enough times by honest writers (who actually <em>have</em> done the work they&#8217;ve implicitly claimed to), readers might reasonably &#8220;let their guard down&#8221; when they see it in the future; so if a <em>dishonest</em> writer comes along and says that &#8220;it turns out that X&#8221;, these readers will take that statement both as evidence for X and for the fact that the writer has done the work to justify X; the trick is that the idea that &#8220;when writers say &#8216;it turns out that X&#8217;, X turns out to be true&#8221; has been baked into these readers over time.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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